place

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punsola
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Registriert: 02.12.2023, 11:19

place

Beitrag von punsola »

Is it possible we can enter 2 more informations for the place :
county (kreis)
subdivision : village(Ortschaft), or parish (Pfarrei) for a large town

In the import of a GEDCOM, if the information in HEAD, PLAC, FORM is present, can you use it in order to decode a place separeted by a comma (,).
For instance, FORM : Town, Area code, County, Region, Country, Subdivision
to decode : Arnsberg, 05958004, Hochsauerlandkreis, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Deutschland, Breitenbruch

Dominique PUNSOLA
Viroflay, France
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Fridolin
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Re: place

Beitrag von Fridolin »

Hi Dominique,

the Ahnenblatt software is widely oriented towards standard compatibility. So, within the GEDCOM 5.5 standard, there are no such things as county or other subdivisions for the tag 'place'.

Of course, you can add user defined tags to get that - but this won't probably help you when exchanging data.

One good way to code a place - at least for German places - is to use the GOV system (Geschichtliches Orts-Verzeichnis, http://gov.genealogy.net/search/index). It's flexible. It's clear. But it's historic, i.e. there might be different definitions for one place depending on the time meant. Breitenbruch (http://gov.genealogy.net/item/show/BREUCHJO41BK) would now be Breitenbruch, Stadt Arnsberg, Hochsauerlandkreis, Regierungsbezirk Arnsberg, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Bundesrepublik Deutschland or Breitenbruch, Amt Freienohl, Landkreis Arnsberg, Regierungsbezirk Arnsberg, Provinz Westphalen, Freistaat Preußen, Deutscher Bund for 1844~1866; but always GOV-Code 'BREUCHJO41BK'.

Of course, your example doesn't look bad, either. You'd just need to put Breitenbruch to the beginning, either with Breitenbruch, Arnsberg,... or Arnsberg (Breitenbruch), ... or Breitenbruch (près de Arnsberg), Westphalie... The only thing you need to know for Ahnenblatt is this: There is a way to automatically shorten names of places by getting them trunkated at the first comma or dash. So if you display the short version of your place, it will be either 'Breitenbruch' or 'Arnsberg (Breitenbruch)' or 'Breitenbruch (près de Arnsberg)'.

So you can type basically anything you want into the place, even a very long name. It may be trunkated by the program for charts and lists.

One more question - just out of curiosity: Where did you get that idea to assign the German community code 05958004?
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punsola
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Registriert: 02.12.2023, 11:19

Re: place

Beitrag von punsola »

For codes of german towns (gemeinden), i found them in the GV-ISys :
https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Laend ... itung.html
I concatenate 05 : code of the land, 958 : code of the kreis, 004 : code of the gemeinde

Of course, in the standard, there are counties, states, countries
Please look at https://gedcom.io/specifications/Family ... COMv7.html ; PLACE_STRUCTURE
Deleted User 8441

Re: place

Beitrag von Deleted User 8441 »

Hello Dominique,

unfortunately, Ahnenblatt does not support Gedcom 7.x.

https://www.ahnenblatt.de/infos/gedcom7/

Martin
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Fridolin
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Re: place

Beitrag von Fridolin »

PLACE_STRUCTURE looks like a cool feature. I've never heard of that. If I interpret this correctly, it doesn't mean that you can use separate data fields like county, state and the like, but specify what the different parts of a compound place name mean. It may be related to PLACE_HIERARCHY in GEDCOM 5.5.1.

Ahnenblatt still only handles GEDCOM 5.5.1 (draft version from 1999). In the last years, the main focus of the developer was to get unclear cases of the standard sorted out inside a developer group called GEDCOM_L (which is a mailing list of German speaking developers). I was hoping that almost any feature in GEDCOM 5.5.1 was covered, but it doesn't look like that.

In fact, I'm not aware of a support of this GEDCOM feature within Ahnenblatt. Which would mean that you won't be able to interpret those long names for places. Existing data will be retained and not displayed, but re-written when exported again - that's probably all.

Maybe the developer himself may jump in - we'll see.
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punsola
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Registriert: 02.12.2023, 11:19

Re: place

Beitrag von punsola »

I gave you the reference of the GEDCOM 7 standard, but the system for the places was the same in 5.5 and 5.5.1. There is nothing new in 7.
Look in : https://gedcom.io/specifications/ged551.pdf , page 58 :
PLACE_HIERARCHY:= {Size=1:120}
This shows the jurisdictional entities that are named in a sequence from the lowest to the highest
jurisdiction. The jurisdictions are separated by commas, and any jurisdiction's name that is missing is
still accounted for by a comma. When a PLAC.FORM structure is included in the HEADER of a
GEDCOM transmission, it implies that all place names follow this jurisdictional format and each
jurisdiction is accounted for by a comma, whether the name is known or not.

The softwares I know use PLAC.FORM, but they are french ones : Heredis, Généatique, Ancestrologie

I know GEDCOM-L. I think some ideas from GEDCOM-L were included in GEDCOM 7.
Now there is a new standard and I think we must follow it and give up GEDCOM-L, GEDCOM 5.5.5, GEDCOM 5.6, GEDCOM 6.0, GEDCOM X
If there are many standards, in fact there are none.
I think all genealogical software must upgrade to the version 7. It will need time but it must be done.

Dominique
Deleted User 8441

Re: place

Beitrag von Deleted User 8441 »

punsola hat geschrieben: 03.12.2023, 17:57
I think all genealogical software must upgrade to the version 7. It will need time but it must be done.

Dominique
I see it the same way, the sooner the better. I had thought about this here in the forum already fetched a flowery nose. Unfortunately, the programmer sees it differently, as you can see from my link above.

Martin
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